lame indeed

I personally don't see it as any competitive gain. It's yet another example of Apple trying to exert force where it doesn't need to be. I think it really is the beginning of the end for Apple with all of their staunch ways led by the all knowing Steve Jobs. I think American consumers are voting with their wallets more than ever, and they aren't buying Microsoft tablets or smartphones, so why reintroduce Microsoft to adoring iphone users? I think its the last stand for Apple to pick up its toys and play in another sandbox. But what about when the next sandbox isn't so accommodating to the Apple way of doing things?

It is a smart move by Apple! Apple is not in the search business.. but Google is in the mobile business.. Google should of thought about little things like this before it went and stepped on toes!!

sent from my android device

The latest theory from TechCrunch is a four month old theory from BusinessWeek:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2010/tc20100119_759795.htm

"Apple, Microsoft Discuss Giving Bing Top iPhone Billing

Apple (AAPL) is in talks with Microsoft (MSFT) to replace Google (GOOG) as the default search engine on its iPhone, according to two people familiar with the matter. The talks have been under way for weeks, say the people, who asked not to be named because the details have not been made public."

I don't think Apple would be that stupid. Microsoft is the natural enemy of Apple. I am a Mac fan and therefore I despise Microsoft. If Apple is foolish enough to bring the enemy home (by replacing Google with Bing as default search engine in iPhones etc.) I would NOT buy another iPhone. Ever.

Fuck Apple. I'm a PC!

*Sigh* so much bile spewing.

"I'm a Mac fan and therefore I despise Microsoft"
Really ?

They are both simply options, options are good. Blind loyalty to faceless corporations is just silly.
If Apple goes with MS then they will have a solid business reason to do so. Nothing more nothing less.
Google, Apple, Microsoft they are just corporate entities trying to make the maximum profit they can. They are not your friend or your enemy.They simply want your money.

Just to be clear, Jobs did NOT say that people don't search on smart phones. He didn't even say Search was not important on smart phones. What he did talk about was how Search is king on the desktop, whereas Apps are where all the action is on smart phones. He did not say, or even imply that they were mutually exclusive.

I don't think most users care about bing or google.
I think very few people will not buy the iPhone because it has bing not google. Both products are similar and do the same job. May be some android users may go on about how not to buy iPhone because of bing. Apple should go with whoever pay them more for search box

Doc:

I was merely paraphrasing in my post.

What Jobs said was: "On the desktop, search is where it's at. That's where the money is. But on a mobile device, search hasn't happened. Search is not where it's at; people aren't searching on a mobile device like they do on a desktop. What's happening is they're spending all of their time in apps."

I think my summary is fair.

I would say there is very good reasons to change. First, Google has been sitting on its search laurels for a long time and hasn't improved it basic search engine at all despite glaring problems. If you have any integrity as a columnist who has been covering Google, you'd be asking questions about why search at Google has remained stagnant as dirty water, and frankly, the commercials Microsoft run about doing a Google search while comic are quite true - the results are a mishmash of the incomprehensible.

Second, Google has various search applications and suites of docs available in the cloud for use on iPhones, iPads, MacBooks and all other platforms. The Google app on the iPhone and iPad is one of the most popular app downloads. This app is a much better way to search on an iPhone and Google should focus on it. Third, we still have the web based Google search option in Safari, so the idea of "dropping" Google means little to the end user.

As for enemies and allies in the computer technology, you all need to grow up and stop acting like teenagers in high school. Microsoft, going back to day one with the Macintosh introduction has been a natural partner in developing software applications like Excel. These "partnerships" and relationship are not based on teenage emotions of hatred and revenge upon my "enemies enemy" but instead upon performance and the direction of progress with the platforms. Tough decisions always need to be made.

The Flash decisions was pure and simply a matter of really bad performance of the Flash software (and Adobe's refusal to address or acknowledge the need for improvement) and the directions the web and client side applications are headed. Adobe has always been a partner with Apple but that cannot cloud a tough decision that needed to be made for a quality software experience for the end users.

For people to be talking smack and acting like jolted teenage lovers is childish and immature.

Richard:

So... you're on Bing's team then?

It's a new world, people. You remember all that paranoid talk by Bill Gates, how his company was fighting for its survival? Well the day has arrived when Microsoft IS fighting for its survival. You remember when Bill made an investment in Apple at a time when Apple was on the ropes? Well the day has arrived when Microsoft needs a helping hand from Apple. Money is not the problem for Microsoft. Growing their business is the problem. Bing is OK. If you need to split hairs you go to Google. There is nothing wrong with Apple throwing their weight behind some revenue generation and market share capture for Microsoft. It's how us fair minded people expect the new Big Dog to behave.

Raymond Robbins | May 29, 2010 8:45 AM

Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple.. so.. your hatred is stupid, not this move.

:P

Raymond, you say Apple is stupid to "bring the enemy home" but you don't seem to realize that Google is "the enemy" too. Apple competes directly with Google in the mobile market.

And really? You would stop buying iPhones just because of the search engine? I can't believe you buy phones based on the search engine. Seems retarded. Why did you pay $200+ for an iPhone when you could get a FREE phone with Google as the search engine?

I can understand the boycott of Apple for shirking Flash, or other internet browsers (I'm not a fan of Safari...) or any of the dozens of other valid complaints against the company... but to dump all the benefits of the iPhone just because of it's search engine? I mean, you do realize that you can still use Google for internet searches, right? Hell you could use Yahoo or Ask.com if you wanted to (though I'm not sure why anyone would want to).

And as far as the device level search goes, who cares what engine they use as long as it works? I don't really care if it's a Log base 2 algorithm or a Log base 3... I don't care if it indexes emails as you type them or after you save/send... do you?

I'd love to hear your responses, but I seriously doubt you'll ever come back to this website...

Bing as useless is Vista, which is really useless!!!

I think I know why Apple is making the switch...
A little while ago Apple sued Google for "Copyright Infringement" witch the I-pod touch OS against Andriod...because according to Steve jobs they are fairly close? Really? Are they? So that might be why Apple is "Swapping" over to Bing.

Proprietary Apple and Microsoft have a real battle on their hands in the future with Android (and other Linux). I can see them becoming very close. Google Android is picking up developers, polish and new cool and valuable features fast. Openness is the driver.
I predict we will see alot of movement away from I-Phone to Android because of new features such as WIFI hotspot. These are the kind of features I-Phone will never incorporate since Apple is all about locking down and limiting power features.

I definitely prefer to use Google for my searches, but I don't think it would be a tragedy if bing were the default. Why? I can just change it, probably in about a minute. It just means more iphone users would use Bing and make the search war slightly less one sided.

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs has said people don't search on their smartphones; they search within applications.

If this is true, then why risk alienating the millions of Google users by dumping the leading search engine for Bing if Apple really believes people aren't searching there anyway?"

er... huh? didn't get this one. If Jobs believes that no one search on their smartphone, they search within, then it wouldn't matter if they switch out Google for Bing, but I'm sure they gotten a deal out of MSFT in doing so.

I don't agree with Jobs' statement but if iPhone OS does do a switch, I don't think users would care. Of those one who really do, they would search out and use Google themselves.

I expect that M$ is throwing a lot of money at Apple to set up Bing as the default search engine, but not remove Google (that would be anti-competitive, but consistent with Jobs' other manoeuvres.

So long as Apple doesn't pull Google, nobody will care. I even use Google to search M$'s site because it can find what I'm looking for.

I try Bing every few months just to see if it's improved. It's a lot better than M$ searches used to be, but still crap.

If asked "what's bad about this strategy," I would say M$ competing with Google. M$ has demonstrated the same strategic competence as GM. They have done OS well with Windows 7 (and horribly with Vista, ME), and an outstanding job with Office until they broke the user interface in 2007.

I doubt M$ is making any profit on search. If they had any sort of competitive advantage, it might be worth staying in the game, but, at best, they're a vanity project.

Alastair:

You would likely be able to change the search option with one click, but who wants to do that? its like a shell game that says: we know you want to use Google and you can, but you're going to have to click to get to it and get away from Bing.

My point is inconveniencing the customer in the hopes of deflecting users from google to bing is no way to do business.

I can see this happening... I have used Google for many years, but Bing is actually my preferred browser in MANY cases. I have been using Bing's mobile search site on my iPhone for many months now and I prefer it to Google's.
Also, all you Apple fan boys have to realize that all these companies want you money... They help each other for many reasons... And another thing, just remember that the reason you have you precious Apple company was due to the fact a “small” company invested $150 Million to keep it afloat... what was the name of that “small” company? Oh yeah Microsoft. You should be praising Microsoft for your ability to even having an iPhone, iPad, iMac or anything that is iSomething...

People just can't help but jump on the bandwagon. GM, Ford, Apple, PC, Android, Democrat, Republican. Silly fools.

He who hath loyalty in a company is doomed to a life of limits.

All of the listed parties above are there for themselves. If you side with them then they are that much more happy.

For me, if a company pisses me off with poor products, or runs itself in ground then expects the government to save it and then refuses to correct the issue I switch, GM to Ford.

When apple started the PowerPC and it was expanding like a wild fire and I even got my Mother to switch then they killed it and left us all hanging with an OS that took tricks to get the thing to do what millions of PCers were doing, I switched to a PC.

When the democrats were renting the Lincoln bedroom in the Whitehouse owned by the people or taking bribes from the Chinese to sell the secrets to how our ICBMs were guided so accurately, I switched to republican.

When I was using other Smartphone's avoiding Apple from past experiences but the Android smart phones I was using were crap, I switched to the iPhone.

I have no loyalty to any company. Therefore I am unlimited to how much cool stuff I can have.

Back to the search thing, I use both Bing and Google as one will often get me things the other will not. Bing is much better if I am looking for some particular thing I want to buy to learn about, Google is much better at finding and learning about places. Google is still a bit better with the maps but Bing is close.

I say put all the searches that are willing to pay Apple (it is their phone) and let users switch or even better, using an apple interface, search all of them at once to maximize the quest.

I, for one, do NOT care whether the iPhone uses bing or google. Both will do for my mobile search needs. I still prefer for Google for the desktop.

But I am willing to care that MOST people don't care about the search engine they use on their phone. So there is minimal risk of alienating most iPhone customers. So I had to laugh when I read this:

"the hatred the company would inspire over making users switch back to Google to search would outweigh the positive. "

Hatred??? Seriously, hatred??? Do you even know what the word "hatred" means???

At the rate your rhetoric was escalating, I am surprised that you didn't trigger Godwin's law.

Do you know why today Apple still here and become the world’s biggest technology company by market value.

http://www.youtube.com/user/peestandingup#p/u/55/WxOp5mBY9IY

I think bing will be added as an option.
PS: There's a chinese company bringing out a new search engine called Bong.

So you can Bing or Bong.

Fact is that Bing has some advantages over Google. Better looking, more functional, much better maps, better linking to local resources. Apple is smart to use it as a leverage point with Google. Try and remember - all of these companies, including Apple, are in business to make money and return equity to sharholders, not to serve some lofty ideal.

Mr. Gates is one of the most insanely rich induviduals in the entire world. He owns over 50% of apple. Everyone goes out to buy the latest and greatest icrap. it is the biggest industry around at this moment it seems like.

Bill Gates also owns bing. what do you know...for the record, bing sucks. It's like, "WOAH! look at the cool HD waterfall scene!" No, its not the picture on the page, or how "extremely" fast it is, its about the actual detail to the page. (great search help, a great deal of results for the search, etc.) He just wants more money and bing is dragging more people to view his bing site other than a site that isnt his.

Google is the best search engine, and Bill is a foolish man for trying to get on googles level.

Google has made my IPhone Better with their search and maps and things. If Apple drops Google and takes my apps away then maybe its time for me to look at Googles Phones. My friend has one and it seems just as good as my IPhone!

I think it makes perfect business sense for Apple to do this. And it is quite childish for the author to look at this as a mere effort to ding Google. It may be part of the reason, but if the author is not yet aware, it is more of an overall effort to survive and to thrive.

The only good reason Apple would have to do this would be to ding Google. It's the money; Apple has that in spades. Have you seen the market cap?

If the business world were driven by a screw-the-customer ethos, you'd be right. As it is, it's not that way.

I dont think it will ever happen. A choice, possibly. Nevertheless, what would I do as I user. I can change it easily to google anyway. I hate anything Microsoft first of, anything that adds to viruses and malwares and they are all microsoft related, not in my iphone, period......

People do not search with in apps, they search from there phones browser or search button/bar. Data shows that 90% of searched on an Android mobiles are from the browser or search bar. If thats not enough data for jobs then consider what made Google ubiquitous with the term "Google it". It is simple people like to search for stuff from there phones, iPhone has failed to do this as elegantly as Android has done. And now with voice search in Android 2.2 "Froyo" it is a matter of literally asking your android a question. It may be too late for Apple to play catch up, now that Android has beat the iPhone in sales in the US. They cant afford to use MS for anything. Then again im all about Google and i love my Nexus One.

Search is no longer honest. and I have been completely alienated by the likes of Google.

When I search, I want to find the most relevant sites, not the ones who has paid the most money to be up there on top.

Adds will eventually destroy the pleasure of surfing the net just as commercial TV has destroyed watching TV unless you use Time Shift to cut out the adds.
Or am I just being naive to think that the FREE internet could remain free and unbiased.

Even if they switch, they wont be dumping anything, just what is default, Google can still be accessed through the web and through apps. People who want Google will still be able to use it. People who don't care will probably use Bing. The only people it alienates are Googles share holders. Hurt Googles bottom line without really alienating anybody. Smart move if you want to hurt Google.

As far as Flash. I'm a PC/Mac/Google/RIM user, so I'm not really a fan bay of anybody, but I think Steve Jobs war on Adobe Flash is the best thing anyone has attempted to do for the internet experience. Flash needs to die, The quicker the better.

Of course apple would do this thing. Think about it, Bing is far more visually oriented than Google, which seems to just want to provide useful information to people who want to think for themselves. Bing, on the other hand, is a "decision engine" for people who find, say, more than one mouse button just too complicated.

Diane, there a things called Ad Blockers. In my case using Firefox with its vast Ad blocking extensions, the ads, and pop ups and banners are virtually gone from my daily web surfing. Theres no excuse for complaining abouts Ads on site anymore.
As for Google searches, Google returns hits on your search based on site traffic generated by search hits and the following click of the link for the particular site. So you are assured of an accurate and relevant hit. As we know MS has been struggling as of late so Bing is exactly what you described above, MS is literally selling there top spots to advertisers to generate income and data revenue for Bing. Unfortunately MS is years behind Google in the search game, so you are left with bias and outdated hits on searches from Bing.

@Diane: The most relevant sites appear on top.

The ones that pay appear as ads, not as your search results.

Any Sun Tzu The Art of War / Strategy experts here ? if not let the big boys play, save your comments and thoughts, stop whining how you search or which search you use.... nobody cares ...

Everybody plays to win, even if you have to join up to even the playing field sometimes...

"keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"

Just looking at this; can't say I'm all that interested, but as a tech investor, the misinformation here is unhealthy for the proper operation of markets.

Re. the MS investment in Apple of $150M, that was chump change at the time, and in nonvoting shares. The real value of the Apple/MS agreements of that time was the commitment by MS to maintain Office on the Mac for five year. The $150M functioned as both a signal to the market that MS was committed, and it is also underreported that there were patent issues involved there as well, where MS had wholly cut and pasted Quicktime code into their Video for Windows.

Does Bill Gates own any Apple stock? He might; if he doesn't he missed out on the best-performing major company of the past ten years. But he's not listed as a major shareholder.

Who cares what Apple uses as the primary search engine? The idea of searching for data is simply to get answers. If Bing is mature enough, then why do any of you care where your answers are coming from, the point is to get the answer you are requesting. If one determines that they want Google over Bing without considering that they are able to get their data equally as efficient, then your only motive is competition and fanboyism. I use Google just like most others do, but that doesn't mean I can't get the same answers through some other search engine. All I care about is getting the answers period. You are all in an uproar over nothing and making mountains out of mole hills. Get over this idea that there is only one answer out there and open up to other alternatives. Of course if you Google is your savior and the idea that Apple may make Bing the default search engine makes you frantic, then you have bigger problems than you may think. Do you own stock in Google? If yes, then this may be a concern for you, if not, get over it and move forward.

Google? Becoming so passe. Now you Bing it and find answers!
Google is evil. Wants to make buck on everyone's info.

i want apple to do it just to see what happens. i want stats like how many switched back to google, how it increased bing's search share and how much dent did it make on google's search revenue when half of the iphone users didnt notice that their search engine's been changed. would be interesting. hmmm it may not be a good thing that google's now synonymous to search that although it clearly says bing, people will still think they're googling =) lastly, bing sucks. i dont know who uses it but it just doesnt work for me.

I think this is the smart move by Apple. Android indeed has the potential to kill iPhone. You simply can not compete with something that is free. Then, why can Google offer Android for free? It's the ads. There are two areas of mobile ads, search ads and in-app ads. iAd will look after the in-app ads. Bing will look after the search ads. By doing this, Google will not get the majority of ads revenue from iPhone platform. After spending 750 million to get AdMob, without ads revenue from iPhone platform, it will take much longer time for Google to recover from the spendig. So, this is the only way to hurt Google. Whenever Google is hurt, it's good for Apple.

Bing search is terrible. My business is easily the main choice for customers in my area. Google knows this. Bing doesn't have a clue and consistently displays results that are so wrong and for businesses that aren't even in the area, it's laughable. Providing our sitemap.xml doesn't help and the Bing webmaster tools are useless because they simply don't work.

i didn't know Bing was a Mikrosoft product like MSN but even so I still type google on their search bars because Google is my trusted name for casual and hardcore searching. Always my first choice.